View Poll Results: Are you a pirate?
Yes - I'm a mega pirate! Arr! 3 30.00%
Yes - I pirate, but only a little bit / Only a couple of times 3 30.00%
No - I never pirate 4 40.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

Thoughts on Piracy

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 29, 2006, 12:20am Default Thoughts on Piracy
Christopher's Avatar
Iced Cap

Posts: 655
Name: Christopher
Karma: Christopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the rough
With the internet so large now, and with more and more things becoming digital, we're living in an age where piracy is a huge problem.

Take a vote on this poll (it's private), and lets see how many people pirate digital content (be it music, video, software...).

I took a quick count of the people that I know personally, and I would say about 98% of them are pirates. This could be because of the age group I am in (I believe I've read users who are aged from 15-25 pirate the most ). But either way, it got me thinking about why people pirate content, and possible solutions for content creators. I'm going to focus mainly on digital media for now.

I think there are two very big problems with the way content creators are going about this whole piracy thing. First thing is, they are not making their content accessible, and second thing is they are plaguing their content with useless DRM.

Accessible content for the masses
For now, let's just agree that piracy will always be a problem. But let's also agree that there are certainly ways that content creators could reduce the amount of piracy.

First, let's try and do a rough grouping of who pirates and their reasons. Those 98% of people I know (the ones who pirate), not a single one of them would walk into a store and actually steal something. Most (all?) of those people have available income, and they all spend money on content. So why do they pirate? The answer is very simple: accessibility.

Imagine a user who is sitting at home on a Sunday night. He wants to watch an episode of Lost that he missed the week before. He's got three choices:
  • Miss the episode and wait for the series to come out on DVD after all episodes have aired.
  • Go to iTunes and pay for a crappy, low res, DRM'ed version
  • Fire up his favorite BitTorrent client and download an HD (high res), DRM-free version in an hour.
While iTunes has started a good trend by letting users purchase content they want whenever they want it, they have a flawed system. First issue is the video quality is horrible compared to what most users expect, and second is the DRM (which I'll cover in a second).

I think to solve the problem of digital media piracy (as much as it can be solved, anyway), is to just provide quality content the users want in a way that is easy, fast, and affordable. Most people don't want to steal, so stop making them!

Digital Rights Management (DRM)
DRM is the most idiotic and useless thing ever conceived. DRM technology, in a nutshell, limits the things we can do with legally purchased content. The problem? They are treating the paying customers as criminals and are limiting/enforcing the way they use their content.

DRM technology can never work. To use the content the DRM is applied to, there needs to be a way to reverse the DRM. And since the DRM can be reversed, it can be cracked. This is always the case. So why introduce a technology that won't keep the pirates from pirating, but annoys the hell out of the users who are actually legally buying the content?!

DRM does not stop piracy. DRM does provide another reason to pirate.



So there's my thoughts What do you think?
__________________
:: Devlog - New developer blog with useful PHP information
:: WeTalk.tv - TV Forums
Christopher is offline
Reply With Quote
View Public Profile Visit Christopher's homepage! Send a private message to Christopher
 
Old Jun 11, 2006, 02:28pm Default Re: Thoughts on Piracy
Christopher's Avatar
Iced Cap

Posts: 655
Name: Christopher
Karma: Christopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the rough
A few votes, but no thoughts?
__________________
:: Devlog - New developer blog with useful PHP information
:: WeTalk.tv - TV Forums
Christopher is offline
Reply With Quote
View Public Profile Visit Christopher's homepage! Send a private message to Christopher
 
Old Jun 14, 2006, 12:18am Default Re: Thoughts on Piracy
DaveMo~'s Avatar
Witty Title

Posts: 1,548
Name: Dave
Karma: DaveMo~ is a jewel in the roughDaveMo~ is a jewel in the roughDaveMo~ is a jewel in the roughDaveMo~ is a jewel in the rough
It sometimes takes me a long time to get my thoughts together!!!

Allow me one statement, stealing is stealing, no matter how easy it is or how one will never get caught. If that statement is true, then those that pirate are thieves, and that's a moral issue (one that probably won't keep most people from stealing).

Even with that said, I agree that piracy/stealing will always be a problem. I also agree that most of the people that I know that pirate also have the means to make the purchases and it's the accessibility that tempts them to go beyond their moral standards of stealing.

There's also a fourth possibility in your example, and that's to set your TiVo or digital cable box (maybe even a VHS if anyone still uses them) to record the episode(s) of whatever you want to watch.

Quote:
I think to solve the problem of digital media piracy (as much as it can be solved, anyway), is to just provide quality content the users want in a way that is easy, fast, and affordable.
I'm not sure that I understand that statement to its fullest, but it seems that the biggest thing in that is the "affordable" part. Do you think that if every CD or DVD only cost $1.00 that it would stop piracy?

DRM is an issue that I really don't know how to cover. Having developed some software, I need a way to keep it as mine and to sell it as I see fit. How do I develop something that is useful to others (so it will sell) and also make money for me? Everything can't be free.

Here's an example that most don't like, but I do have locks on my house. They only keep honest people honest. The thieves can still figure out a way to get in, no matter how good my locks are. So why use locks? I have to protect what's mine in some fashion.

I don't have a solution, but no one is being forced to pirate.

BTW, is making a copy of your own legally purchased CDs or DVDs for your own personal use considered pirating? It is a good way to keep your DVDs in great shape for a long period of time (use the copies and not the originals).

Dave
__________________
Trying this out: My Dollar Store Let me know what you think!


DaveMo~ is offline
Reply With Quote
View Public Profile Visit DaveMo~'s homepage! Send a private message to DaveMo~
 
Old Jun 14, 2006, 01:29pm Default Re: Thoughts on Piracy
Christopher's Avatar
Iced Cap

Posts: 655
Name: Christopher
Karma: Christopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMo~
Allow me one statement, stealing is stealing, no matter how easy it is or how one will never get caught. If that statement is true, then those that pirate are thieves, and that's a moral issue (one that probably won't keep most people from stealing).
Yes, this is true. Though when I mention this to people there's a long pause between any reply In the digitalized culture we have today, I think pirating is a "look the other way" kind of activity. On this same note, I have a friend who buys shows from iTunes but still actually pirates the same shows he buys simply to get a better quality version. He doesn't think he's stealing, but he is isn't he?

Quote:
I'm not sure that I understand that statement to its fullest, but it seems that the biggest thing in that is the "affordable" part. Do you think that if every CD or DVD only cost $1.00 that it would stop piracy?
iTunes and other online stores are working because of the affordable prices they offer. $0.99 is pretty good when you're used to going to HMV and paying $20 for a CD with 11 songs on it.

What I meant by that statement is to give users the quality of content they deliver everywhere else, but with an affordable pricetag. I don't mind paying $1.99 for a show from iTunes, but offer me the same quality I can get elsewhere. I'm not actually going to want to watch an entire season of Lost in 320x240 resolution. And no one spout any garbage about bandwidth, because we have the technology to deal with bandwidth (bittorrent).

Quote:
DRM is an issue that I really don't know how to cover. Having developed some software, I need a way to keep it as mine and to sell it as I see fit. How do I develop something that is useful to others (so it will sell) and also make money for me? Everything can't be free.

Here's an example that most don't like, but I do have locks on my house. They only keep honest people honest. The thieves can still figure out a way to get in, no matter how good my locks are. So why use locks? I have to protect what's mine in some fashion.
DRM by design is created to take away your rights. For example, there is no other player besides the Apple iPod and the Apple iTunes program that can play the songs anyone buys from their music store. I bought the song fair and square, I should be able to do whatever I want with it. But this DRM comes in and says, "NO! You can only use this content in ways that WE think you should".

I wouldn't mind if DRM progressed far enough so that it was unintrusive and I could do the things I want to do, but it still worked well enough to prevent those robbers who don't want to break a window from doing so. But right now, the corporations behind DRM are all about control.

Quote:
BTW, is making a copy of your own legally purchased CDs or DVDs for your own personal use considered pirating? It is a good way to keep your DVDs in great shape for a long period of time (use the copies and not the originals).
In Canada, technically downloading music online is legal (only filesharing is not) I know we can create backups, not sure about you guys over in the US. I believe you still can, but keep your eyes peeled for all of these bills they are trying to pass. The "DMCA2" that was getting a buzz earlier this year would take away your rights to backup content you purchased.



Just wanted to clarify, I'm not pro-piracy I'm just trying to place readers into the mindset of people who pirate so they can understand the reasons. If everyone understood why people download material illegally, it's the first step in rectifying the issue.
__________________
:: Devlog - New developer blog with useful PHP information
:: WeTalk.tv - TV Forums
Christopher is offline
Reply With Quote
View Public Profile Visit Christopher's homepage! Send a private message to Christopher
 
Old Jun 14, 2006, 09:18pm Default Re: Thoughts on Piracy
DaveMo~'s Avatar
Witty Title

Posts: 1,548
Name: Dave
Karma: DaveMo~ is a jewel in the roughDaveMo~ is a jewel in the roughDaveMo~ is a jewel in the roughDaveMo~ is a jewel in the rough
There was a survey that was done with college students in the U.S. that had some frightening results. Basically, it asked that if they knew they could get away with some illegal activities, would they do it. An overwhelming response of 75%+ said that they would. Note that this was not dealing with piracy, but was dealing with illegal activities around sex and drugs. If I can find that survey, I'll post it. The point is, when it's easy to get away with doing something illegal, then it seems that there's more of a tendancy to do it! Another prime example for drivers is speeding.

I do wish that there was NOT so much greed in this world that everything has to be so expensive. And that is the biggest reason that I hear why people pirate songs, movies, software, etc. But the expense is not just in the software department, it's everywhere (cars, houses, whatever). However, like the point above, pirating is easy and doesn't have all the repercussions like stealing a car.

So, is THE solution to pirating lowering prices?

Dave
__________________
Trying this out: My Dollar Store Let me know what you think!


DaveMo~ is offline
Reply With Quote
View Public Profile Visit DaveMo~'s homepage! Send a private message to DaveMo~
 
Old Jun 14, 2006, 09:48pm Default Re: Thoughts on Piracy
Christopher's Avatar
Iced Cap

Posts: 655
Name: Christopher
Karma: Christopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the rough
It's a multi-step approch:
  1. Make content accessible: Deliver content to the users in multiple forms. Let them download it, let them order it as soon as it becomes available, let them rent it... All are possible routes.
  2. Delivery quality content: Deliver content that is on par with the quality the user expects. Lost airs in HD, so deliver the content in HD unless your price fits a reduced quality version.
  3. Price content as cheap as possible: Make the stuff affordable. Make it so little Joey who is 15 years old can afford to buy content with money he saved from cutting lawns
Combined, then I think piracy will be less of a problem then it is today. As long as there is digital media there will be piracy, especially (as you said) when it's so darn easy.

I just think the solution is not through DRM that limits freedoms, but by letting people get and use the content they want, when they want it. Because all it takes is one person to break the DRM on a piece of digital content and upload it to the interent, or someone ot record the content from an alternate source. These two things makes DRM pretty useless IMO. (I tried to apply those two facts to your locks example, but they're two different situations)

As for your stats, I can believe it. Which is why piracy will always be a problem, and why it is literally useless to try and combat it with methods like DRM. Instead, they should focus on getting people to buy the content legally.
__________________
:: Devlog - New developer blog with useful PHP information
:: WeTalk.tv - TV Forums
Christopher is offline
Reply With Quote
View Public Profile Visit Christopher's homepage! Send a private message to Christopher
 
Old Jun 17, 2006, 10:48am Default Re: Thoughts on Piracy
DaveMo~'s Avatar
Witty Title

Posts: 1,548
Name: Dave
Karma: DaveMo~ is a jewel in the roughDaveMo~ is a jewel in the roughDaveMo~ is a jewel in the roughDaveMo~ is a jewel in the rough
It seems that when discussing piracy, most people are talking about music and videos. It also seems that the multi-step approach is also about those. So, what do you think about piracy of software (stuff that is not shown in theaters, heard on the radio, or seen on TV)?

One of my main concerns is piracy of software when the owner/developer is losing because of the theft. That may seem lopsided, and some may accuse me of not caring when multi-billion dollar companies have stuff being pirated, but I'm also concerned with software from all companies.

This may be a different issue.....but then again, it may not.

Dave
__________________
Trying this out: My Dollar Store Let me know what you think!


DaveMo~ is offline
Reply With Quote
View Public Profile Visit DaveMo~'s homepage! Send a private message to DaveMo~
 
Old Jun 17, 2006, 12:55pm Default Re: Thoughts on Piracy
Christopher's Avatar
Iced Cap

Posts: 655
Name: Christopher
Karma: Christopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the rough
I think software piracy is a different boat, because there really isn't any excuse for it IMO. With digital media, I can kinda understand why someone over in Amsterdam wants to download TV shows because they won't air over there for another year -- but software is already extremely accessible.

There are some situation where I can understand someone downloading a program. For example, poll 1000 14-18 year old webmasters and I bet that most of them will have a pirated version of Photoshop or Flash or Dreamweaver. These tools are costly, too much for most youngsters. But if you look at the other side of the coin, I bet that most of those people who actually continue on will buy the software at one point.

So I think price is a big factor for software piracy. Everyone has computers, but not everyone has enough money to buy a $300 copy of Windows when their computer alone only cost $650 I'm not sure of a solution in the case of software piracy, because there will always be software that is too expensive for some people. Just like me and you can go and buy some bread form the supermarket, there are some people who can't afford even that.

So it comes down to do you prevent people from using the software they cannot afford, or kinda let them use it and look the other way. For example, what if Windows years ago would have forced your computer to call home every 10 minutes to verify your license or something crazy like that? Would that mean Windows marketshare would be lower in favor of a free OS like Linux?

As a software developer myself, I think a passive approach is best (best in terms of the softwares success). Place in some precautions (ie. serial keys), and actively try to find and stop piracy, but don't go overboard. I think that if 10,000 people pirate the software then some of those will buy it one day. And anti-piracy measures can be cracked, so it's not worth wasting too much time on it anyway.

It sure is a slippery slope...
__________________
:: Devlog - New developer blog with useful PHP information
:: WeTalk.tv - TV Forums
Christopher is offline
Reply With Quote
View Public Profile Visit Christopher's homepage! Send a private message to Christopher
 
Old Jun 29, 2006, 10:29pm Default Re: Thoughts on Piracy
Member

Posts: 54
Karma: triumph is on a distinguished road
I definately think some demographics are more prone to piracy. I know when I was younger I was pirating a lot of stuff. As I have grown up it rarely happens. I will admit to the ocassional "Test drive" of a product I might not otherwise buy because of the price, to see if it is worth it to me. In such cases I either remove it or else I purchase it.
triumph is offline
Reply With Quote
View Public Profile Send a private message to triumph
 
Old Jul 20, 2006, 09:03pm Default Re: Thoughts on Piracy
Christopher's Avatar
Iced Cap

Posts: 655
Name: Christopher
Karma: Christopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the roughChristopher is a jewel in the rough
Slashdot | Yahoo! Sells, Advocates DRM-Free Music

Yahoo has the right of it! I'm glad a big company decided to take a stand.
__________________
:: Devlog - New developer blog with useful PHP information
:: WeTalk.tv - TV Forums
Christopher is offline
Reply With Quote
View Public Profile Visit Christopher's homepage! Send a private message to Christopher
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:20am.

RSS Feed  Feeds: RSS   JS   XML
RSS Feed  Feeds for this forum: RSS   JS   XML


Copyright © 2006 - 2008 by The New Tech

vBulletin, Copyright © 2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5